>> chris: i'm chris wallace, talks to avert the fiscal cliff stall. washingtonates how to prevent more mass murders. ♪ >> chris: with nine days to go is it possible to make a deal to head off big tax increases, and spending cuts? we'll ask two senate leaders, republican john barrasso, and, democrat, kent conrad. then, as the nation mourns the victims of the newtown school shooting, we turn to a man of faith. for some answers. in these trying times he sees the need for a spiritual awakening. we'll discuss the sandy hook massacre and the meaning of christmas. with pastor rick warren. plus, a change at the state department. as the benghazi report is finally released. we'll ask our sunday panel about

the nomination of john kerry to replace hillary clinton. and, where the investigation of a terror attack that killed four americans goes now. and, our power player of the week, continues in holiday tradition, to show respect for veterans. all, right now, on fox news sunday. ♪ >> chris: and hello, again from fox news in washington. at christmas, people who arnauty get coal in their stock and if the white house and congress don't make a deal in the next nine days to avoid the fiscal cliff we ring in the new year with big tax increases and spending cuts. here to talk about what is going to happen or two leading senators. john barrasso, chairman of the republican policy committee. and, from new york, democrat kent conrad, chairman of the senate budget committee. senators, welcome back to fox news sunday. >> thanks for having me. >> chris: before heading to hawaii for christmas the president out a new,

stripped-down plan to avert the fiscal cliff. here's what it is, extend the bush tax cuts for people making less than $250,000. extend unemployment benefits for the 2 million people who will run out, next month. and, delay the sequester of $110 billion, in spending cuts, next year. for all of the talk of $4 trillion in debt reduction the plan would only save $800 billion, over ten years. senator conrad, is that the best that washington can do over the next nine days, and can you pass even that? >> look, chris. it may come to that but we can do better. and we should do better. this is an opportunity to do something that would be hugely important for the country. and, my own belief is, what we ought to do is take speaker boehner's last offer, the president's last offer, split the difference, and that would be a package of about $2.6 trillion. you couple that with the $1.1 trillion that is already done.

and, that would be close to the $4 trillion needed to stabilize the debt and begin to bring it down, and, then, if you want to do add -- add on the alternative minimum tax which costs $800 billion to fix you could offset that with overseas contingency operations, and war costs and some people say, well, neither of those are real. both of them are a fiction. in some sense, that is true, but, at least you are offsetting a spending fiction with the revenue fiction, and clearing the deck so that we don't increase from 4 million to 31 million people the number affected by the alternative minimum tax. >> chris: let me just ask you, senator, briefly, what would that mean? what would the level be for taxes for revenue? how much would be raised in revenue, and, what would it mean in new spending cuts? >> the spending cuts would be $1,450 billion and, the revenue, 1,150 billion dollars and that is a combination of $2.6

trillion. and you couple that with the $1.1 trillion already done, and, you are at $3.7 trillion. and, look, is it perfect? no, everything we hoped for? no. does it match what bowles-simpson did? no. at an even comparison it would be $5.3 trillion. >> chris: you're in the weeds. let me ask you a quick question. are you saying you don't like the president's plan? >> look. it may come to that. but i would hope we'd have one last attempt here to do what everyone knows needs to be done. which is the larger plan that really does stabilize the debt, and get us moving in the right direction. and, does it in a way that is cognizant that we have an economy that is recovering, that is still weak. and, we don't slam it. we don't slam on the brakes here in a way that puts us back into recession. that -- takes the jobless rate to 9.1%.

>> chris: senator barrasso. >> i want to find a solution and not go over the cliff because if we do it hurts or economy and our country and i listen to the president, i think he is eager to go over the cliff for political purposes. i think he sees a political victory at the bottom of the cliff and he gets all the additional tax revenue for new programs and cuts the military which democrats have been calling for, for years, and, he gets to blame republicans for it and when the president recently was in the "wall street urnal," yesterday, talked about, you know, using the state of the union and using it -- inaugural address to blame republicans, that doesn't sound like somebody who is working with republicans, to find a solution. it is time for the president to lead. >> chris: you heard the president's plan and he basically said, this is all i think we can get done in these next nine days, extend the bush tax cuts, for everybody below 250,000, and, extend unemployment benefits. and, as the number three republican in the senate, can you guarantee the republicans will not filibuster the plan?

>> i can't even guarantee that the democrawill vote for it. you have many democrats on the record who don't like this, either. in the senate. the 250 number is too low. according to a number of the democrats. it doesn't deal with so many of the issues out there. so, i'm not sure that they even get a majority in the senate, even though the democrats do have a majority of the members of the senate. >> chris: and what about republicans? would you fill befoibuster it. >> i don't think it will solve the problems -- it actually doesn't solve the problems. we have a spending problem in this country, chris, not a taxing problem. the president -- >> i know, but we have had this -- we've had the argument before. we have nine days. are we going over the cliff. >> i believe we are and i believe the president is eager to go over the cliff for political purposes. and he senses a victory at the bottom of the cliff and i think it hurts or country and our economy. >> senator barrasso i understand your party opposes raising taxes and i'm not saying you are right or wrong. that is something that your party believes, but, whether like it or not, the bush tax

cuts expire for everyone the first of the year. why not extend the bush tax cuts for 98% of people instead of raising them for everybody? >> i don't want us to go over the cliff. i want to find a solution. the extension of making permanent the bush tax cuts for everyone, i think would be a good idea. they have the bill that came over -- >> that is not -- >> harry reid can bring it up, amendments can be offered. so, i think there is still time. we are coming back here on the 27th. realistically, what the president has just proposed, is raising taxes, now, perhaps, dealing with spending later, and we need to grow the economy, we need entitlement reform and the president seems to be ignoring those things, chris. >> chris: senator conrad, let's talk about the president's -- not the conrad offer, but the president's offer. you were a member of the bowles-simpson deficit commission and voted for the final report. let's remind people. that proposed almost $3 trillion in spending cuts.

president obama's last offer, the one that the republicans rejected, was less than $1 trillion in spending cuts. we checked. that would be less than 2% of the $44 trillion the government will spend over the next decade. again, is that the best democrats can do? 2% of all the spending over the next deca >> you know, this conversation means exactly what is wrong in washington. i mean, just listen to the conversation you just had. it is he said/she said, blame the other guy. and, look, i tried to be constructive here and lay out an actual plan to get us nearly $4 trillion, by taking the offers that are on the table. speaker boehner and the president were so close and then speaker boehner went off on plan b. i never understood why. had no prospect of succeeding. it did not succeed, even in his own caucus.

but now -- >> you are not answering my question. >> yes. because i'll tell you, something, because we only have nine days left here. when are we going to get serious about actual solutions? i would welcome john to tell me, he says he wants a solution. give us one! give us one, john! i laid out -- >> there is only one person that can provide the leadership and that is the president of the united states. >> no, no sir, that is not true. no -- >> the leadership, rather than campaigning, he ought to be here, leading and working with people and talking to folks on both sides of the aisle. to get a solution so we don't go over the cliff. they believe the president is eager to go over the cliff. >> i don't believe that at all. there are 535 of us, that can provide leadership, there are 435 in the house, 100 in the senate and there is the president, all of us have a responsibility here. and, you know what is happening? what is happening is the same old tired blame game. he said/she said. i think the american people are tired of it. what they want to hear is what is the solution.

what is the way to stop this, before w go over the cliff. put the economy back in the recession. and put millions more people out of work. look, both sides are going to have to give some ground. >> chris: gentlemen -- >> we ought to hear from republicans what ground they are willing to give. i've outlined what ground this democrat is willing to give and have demonstrated it with bowles-simpson and the group of 6 -- >> all right, i want to move on to another subject, we have limit time and i think we have exhausted this debate. for the purposes of this program. a week after ts massacre at sandy hook elementary, an nra executive, ray lapierre joined the debate. here's some of what he said: >> the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. >> chris: senator barrasso, he proposed having an armed guard in every school in america.

estimates are that would cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $8 billion a year. couple of questions: one, would you vote at a time of deficit issues, for $8 billion a year to put armed guards in every school in america, and, are there any laws you could support, in terms of assault guns, assault rifles, in terms of high capacity magazines, tightening background checks, any new gun controls you could support. >> let's step back for a second. i'm a doctor, i'm a father of three. and, i'm from wyoming. a state where we believe strongly in our 2nd amendment rights. we are the people of wyoming, me, personal are still absolutely committed to filed real solutions that work. so, something like this tragedy never happens again. three more of those children were laid to rest, yesterday. >> chris: i'm asking a specific question. >> very, very, very... very, very hurtful to all of us in this country. i think decisions about schools

ought to be made at the local level. i would not want a national effort to say you have to do this in schools. i think local education decisions are best made at the local level. you know, we're going to have a very spirited discussion in congress, in the beginning of neyear. we need to look at all of the issues, because what wayne lapierre and the president of the united states agree on, is that in this country, we have a culture of violence. and, i don't think -- >> that is really -- >> a culture of violence. >> chris: and also, also the president -- not saying he's right or wrong but he believes there is a need for tighter gun control, would you support it or not. >> i'm a strong supporter of our 2nd amendment rights. i want to find real solutions. i want to find real solutions that work and washington is not necessarily the place that you will find t solutions. they will be found in our families and in our faith and communities and medicine and health care. >> senator -- >> those are the problems. >> senator conrad, what do you think of what wayne lapierre had to say, are there any gun

controls you would support? >> well, i already have. i voted for an assault weapons ban twice and i voted for the closing -- closing the gun show loophole where 40% of the guns are sold in this country and no background check occurs in those sales and maybe you can catch people who shouldn't h their hands on a gun, if you close the gun show loophole and i also voted for a lock to be sold with guns, so that you have a trigger lock, $5, you can have a trigger lock, that actually might have prevented this, if the mother had had trigger locks on those guns. >> chris: we have about a minute left. what do you think of wayne lapierre's proffer to the debate? >> it is pretty empty, isn't it? that is the only answer, is to put more guns in schools? look, we already have armed officers in many schools. and in washington, d.c. we have

armed officers in schools. and, some of that is appropriate, and, perhaps, we can do more and, actually, it doesn't cost $8 billion, we have 130,000 elementary and secondary schools in this country, you have two officers in each, that costs $25 billion. where is that money going to come from? >> chris: i'll give you 30 seconds to respond, senator barrasso and we have to wrap this up. >> well, it is the christmas season. washington doesn't have the answers for everything, for our culture. there are issues of mental health, there are issues of our culture, and, i think we're can look at get false sense of security from washington, and in passing more laws, but we need real solutions, to a significant problem in our country, and i'm not sure passing another law in washington is going to actually find a real solution. >> chris: senator barrasso, senator conrad, we want to thank you both, thanks for coming in today. and merry christmas to both of you. >> thank you. >> you, too. >> chris: up next, pastor rick warren on the newtown school

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>> chris: a a decade ago in his best-selling book, the purpose driven life, he wrote god has a plan for us. this holiday season that's nation tries to cope with the tragedy of sandy hook elementary, his perspective takes on a special meaning. earlier i spoke with evangelical minister rick warren. >> chris: pastor, welcome to fox news sunday.

>> thank you, thank you, chris, good to be with you. >> chris: nine days later, we are still mourning the victims of the shooting in newtown, connecticut. what are your thoughts about this tragedy? >> you know, "time" magazine's calling it the massacre of innocence and that actually is a phrase from the first christmas, where herod killed baby boys under 2, at christmas time and, it is very tragic, that this is happening at christmas time. i think with the two sandies, sandy hook and sandy hurricane we really need the christmas spirit right now. the deeper the pain, the deeper the grief, the fewer the words. there are long term things we need to deal with to prevent it from happening again but now, we need to console those who are grieving. as a pastor i deal with grief every day of my life and i discovered it is a good thing, the way we make transitions in the losses of life.

jesus said, blessed are those who mourn, they shall be comforted and if we stuff our grief, i figured out it comes outside ways later on in strange ways and so, part of the healing process is actually dealing with the grief, and, the way we help people in grief, it is to just be with them. you don't have to say anything, you don't need anything profound, you don't need to be wise. you just need to sit with people and love them. during their grief. >> chris: you know, we talk, you know, long term the solutions, and obviously, some of them, which we're talking to the politicians about, gun control and better access to mental health and trying to deal with the violent games and the culture of violence in hollywood. but, in a deeper, more spiritual sense, what is the problem and what is the solution? >> well, i think spiritual sense is at the root of it. any time you have a major crisis or tragedy like this, there are

multiple angles, we had 7 mainly shootings since april. in america. and, there is always, there is a mental health angle you have to deal with, and i don't think we are taking care of those who are struggling with mental illness like we need to in america. there is the civil safety issue, which is gun control and, these assault weapons and they don't call them assault weapons for noth there is the social issues, you mentioned, when students are, by the time they are 18, they have killed 10,000, 20,000 people on video games without any, you know, remorse for it. it creates a culture of violence. but, at the deepest level, is the spiritual issue, which is, the emptiness inside of people. that causes people to be enraged. like this. when we don't have peace in our hearts we will not have peace with each other, that is why jesus, the prince of peace, came at christmas.

so, it starts in the heart. >> chris: ten years ago, when your book, "the purpose-driven life", came out, you, i think it is fair to say, became the face of the evangelical movement. i think you would agree, that your public profile has not been as high in the last few years, but you are just about to begin a new campaign. what is your goal, sir? >> well, first, i intentionally was absent from the scene for the last ten years, i have been in a lot of small villages around the world, africa and places like that most people never heard of. we started with the proceeds of the book, we took that and put it into a thing called "the peace plan", standing for promote reconciliation, equip ethical leaders, assist the poor, care for the sick and educate the next generation, p, e, a, c, e and i have been overseas most of that time and had over 16,000 of my members, doing humanitarian work, in 196

countries. so, i was really not around a whole lot, except when i was here at the church. and the new campaign is -- i realized that when i wrote the book, what on earth am i here for and the purpose driven life, a girl who was 12 years old, when the book came out is now 22 and needs to know the purpose of life and, what i discovered, there are a lot of people who are young today, in their 20s who are pretty disillusioned with the american dream. i hear it all the time, people say, rick, you know, i did four years of college, and i'm out and i have been 1, 2, 3 years witho job and moved back in with my parents and a lot of people in their 20s, early 30s, feel like their life is on hold and that are in limbo and i thought, i need to revise, update, the book. write a new six-week spiritual journey called, "what on earth am i here for" and go after a new generation to help them find

meaning and purpose, while we are waiting on the economy to turn around. >> chris: you talk about a nation in decline, you talk about it being as divided as it has ever been since the civil war and talk about a need for a spiritual reawakening. what does that mean? >> well, there are a lot of things we'll never agree on. there are some things we all agree on. when you get down to the basics of it, people want the same thing. they want safety for their family. they want security, they want a good job. they want to prosper and want our nation to be safe. they want to be in good health. what people disagree on is how to get there and so the answer to our unity, i believe will not be in politics, because we are going to have diferent degrees of, you know, all over the spectrum on that. but, when we come together on the things that matter most and there are three fundamental questions, the question of significance, and, that is, does my life matter, the question of

intention, what is my purpose, and the question of existence, why am i here? these are spiritual issues and they are not political issues and they can provide a rallying cry of purpose that could help us unify. we're not ever going to agree on policies but we can agree on direction. >> chris: you talk about not agreeing on politics. four years ago, you delivered the invocation at president obama's first inauguration. question: how do you think he has done as president? >> well, you know what? i would say, like every president, there are things i agree that i think he did a pretty good job on and i think there are some things that i totally disagree with him on. i made that known to him. you know, four years earlier, i did the opening prayer for inauguration week for president bush, also and i agree with some of the things he did and disagreed with some of them. every president is bound to be

set up for failure, because the moment he's elected, half the people don't like him. so, he's going to have -- he's a human being and is going to make mistakes. i am praying for our president. because i believe that the bible tells us to do so. >> what do you think has been his biggest accomplishment and what are you most disappointed about over these last four years. >> i don't know what the biggest accomplishment would be. i really don't know that. my biggest disappointment is the disunity. president obama ran saying i'm going to be a unifier and our nation is more divided than ever before and is more divided than at any time since the civil war and that is disheartening to me. >> chris: well, you know, he would say, i've tried and, you know, you had mitch mcconnell say in 2010, our number one objective is to make him a one-term president. how much is he responsible for that? and how much is it everybody else in washington?

>> yes. i don't believe blame simply the president. i think there is plenty of blame to go around but i would say, we need to stop blaming. you can't fix the problem while you are fixing the blame. i have trained leaders, literally all around the world. for the last 30 years and one of the things i teach in leadership, is that leaders accept the responsibility and accept the blame and they give away the credit. and i see a lot of politicians doing the exact opposite today. you blame, b-lame, every time you blame you are being lame and i wish both sides would stop blaming and sta fixing the problem. >> chris: finally, pastor, even if a bleak season like this year and, obviously, newtown is going to color everything about the rest of the season, we still look forward to christmas. do you have a message for all of us? myself, all of our viewers, this year, sir? >> yes, you know, chris, the

purpose of christmas is actually found in the three statements at the angels made at the very first christmas. christmas is for celebration, it is for salvation, and it is for reconciliation. >> chris: pastor warren, thank you so much for talking with us. we need a message of celebration right now. >> thank you. >> chris: and merry christmas. >> merry christmas. >> chris: up next, grabbing the rail as we slide toward the fiscal cliff. we'll ask our sunday panel about the president's latest plan to take some of the pain out of going over the brink. will the g.o.p. sign on? ♪

♪ >> president barack obama: call me a hopeless optimist but i actually still think we can get it done. >> how we get there, god only knows. >> chris: the president and speaker boehner still looking for some way to cushion the blow of going over the fiscal cliff. and, it is time now for our sunday group, bill kristol of the weekly standard. kirsten powers from the daily beast web site, radio talk show host, laura ingraham and fox news political analyst, juan williams. well, this week, someone gave me a new way to think of the way we are accumulating the huge national debt, in the country. bear with me for a moment. it is complicated but it is resting. under president obama the debt increased $5.7 trillion. the estimated cost of recovery

from hurricane sandy, is $50 billion. so the rate at which our debt is increasing, is as if a new hurricane sandy hit the u.s. treasury every two weeks. given that, though, what do you think of the president's new stripped-down plan which would reduce the debt by less than 2 sandies in the first year? >> the president is not serious about reducing the debt and that has become evident over the last four years, as we continue to grow the deficit and it will be evident over the next four years, on the other hand, we have a practical problem, ten days from now, the fiscal cliff and on that, i think as i said many times on the show, republicans will be women advised to accept the fact the president won the election and minimize the damage done by the tax increases that are coming. >> chris: you would vote for the stripped-down obama plan. >> i would go for what the speaker tried to do late last week and try to get the number up, and, yes, the tax increase on the wealthy, i would try to protect investments as much as possible and keep dividends at reasonable rates, and, do the

amt patch and a reasble deal on state taxes, but i'm a squish on this, and totally, you have to make -- you have to make the best of a bad situation and i think what will happen, incidentally, is republicans will be faced by monday, on december 31st with having to vote on a much worse proposal, than the one they didn't give speaker boehner the majority for. >> chris: plan b. >> harry reid will pass through the senate on thursday or friday, the tax hike on everybody over $250,000 and republicans will have a choice on monday in the house of, letting it coming to a vote, the speaker probably has to and b, will they lose 20 or 30 republicans to join the democrats, and, toass it or not and i think it is the worst outcome, but, that is what happens, when, republicans decided they would be obstinate and not go along with the speaker. >> chris: let me bring in kirsten and let's look at what the obama plan -- the stripped-down plan would do. we talked about it with the senators, extend the bush tax

cuts, only for people making less than $250,000 a year and extend unemployment benefits and delay, kick down the guy, kick the can down the road, the sequester of $110 billion in spending cuts. kirsten, the republicans, in the house, already rejecting as we pointed out, the boehner plan with people making over a million dollars, what are the chances they'll go for the obama plan. >> it is zero you'd get the entire republican caucus and maybe something can happen, you can get some republicans and some democrats. but even that seems difficult. and i think that it shows how unreasonable the republicans have become. you cannot even agree to this boehner plan, which is only -- you know, letting taxes go up on pen people who make over a million dollars a year. it isn't even 1% of the country. you just can't -- how is obama supposed to negotiate with them, it is such an extreme plan, they've gone from being the party of fiscal responsibility, used to be their brand, to, we

will never raise taxes on anybody, no matter what. and, i think that obama actually, has, look, you know, he gave in on the issue one time, and, now, coming back, and, they will not give even on the small little number of people, and, i just -- i think it is going to politically backfire on them, evally. >> chris: it isn't just democrats, who feel this way. one of speaker boehner's allies in the house, congressman steven la turret, also of ohio, blasted his tea party colleagues for blocking the boehner plan, let's take a look: >> 40, 50 chuckle-heads, starting with hr 1, the entire congress screwed this place up and, so, you know -- and he has done everything, in his power to make nice to them, and bring them along, and to make them feel included. but, it hasn't mattered. >> chris: question: are the people who oppose boehner's plan b chuckle-heads?

i have to say, i love the word. i wanted to get it on fox news sunday. >> chris: when people criticize speaker boehner, the conservatives, their latest -- what is boehner actually doing? a couple of things. number one: republicans lost this election. they lost it fairly significantly. they lost house seats and senate seats and mitt romney rarely discussed the fiscal cliff. and we look back on the conversation and we think, gosh, it would have been nice if we had a plan that had been laid out, other than what mitt romney was saying, we're going to deal with this in a piecemeal fashion and we come to the table with that as a reality. nevertheless, why is anyone leaving down? why did the president leave town for his vacation, why did republicans start to leave town, why did democrats. if it is as serious as people say -- and i think it is, it would seem to me, even if the tea party is intransigent and that is what you want to say, they are terrible people and don't want to agree with anything, they are there and you

have to deal with them, so everyone should stay in town, and can have their christmas eve dinner and do that, stay in town and figure this out and, the tea party, they believe in certain principles and they are fighting for them and think it is a spending problem, not a taking problem. i tend to agree with them, however bill's position is valid. republicans are probably going to get a worse deal on the table as a result of what happened. nevertheless, the president has to deal with the cards on the table and that includes tea party folks and you can demonize them an victim d vilify them, be end you have to deal with them and bill is also right, the president doesn't care much about reducing the debt and it is about expanding the role of government and if you look on paper like you are reducing the debt, fine, but if that was a priority we would have had different things happen. >> chris: there is a very interesting political question. if the senate passes the obama plan, just basically kicks the can down the road and to protect 98% of americans from having

their taxes raised, boehner is going to be faced with a question, does he bring it up to a vote, in the house, and they've reject -- now it is a $250,000 threshold and, now democrats will have to provide the votes to put him over the top and do it the same week that he will have to face election, as speaker? >> well, i think the first thing to says that the big plan the president and speaker boehner were close on, would pass the house and speaker boehner will not bring it up and if he -- >> i'm not sure it would have passed the house. >> i think it would have. the votes are there. you have -- >> revenue increases, more revenue increases than spending cuts. >> they were close and there was a little more negotiating to be done. >> chris: why did bane e -- boe drop out. >> he wanted added leverage and he asked -- picking up on laura

said, the president is acting as if he's in a superior position an hie and he is. this is something the house has done and we have passed it and got it. negotiate with me fairly, my troops are behind him. >> his troops are not behind him. he looks weaker than ever right now and your question becomes the critical question, is he willing to play ball to get things done at the risk of losing his speakership, with them looking for an opportunity to move -- >> what is your answer. >> i think he has to do it. >> chris: 30 second left. bill? what do you think? if -- and, there is a question whether it passes the senate. i asked him, you know, can you guarantee it won't be filibustered and he said he didn't think democrats would go along with it. but, assume it does and boehner says, i have to do it, it will protect 98% of taxpayers, will he do it.

>> he lets the house vote and let the house vote its will and, the democrats want to vote for it, see if there are enough republicans, i don't think it -- there is a fair amount of personal loyalty to john boehner among house republicans and he may have made tactical mistakes but i don't think he will be deposed. chris: will we go over the cliff. >> no, i don't think so. if there is an open vote an thai release the members to vote their conscience and, save 9 % of taxpayers from a hike and, taxes are going up on everyone -- >> obamacare. >> and the payroll tax cut and -- >> and the cost of living is going up. >> the democrats did not protect 98% of americans. >> chris: okay. . we have to take a break here. and we'll have -- still be able to discuss this next week. when we come back, a tough report about the benghazi attack and the president starts to put together his new natio security team. ♪

>> chris: check out fox news sunday.com for hind-the-scenes features, panel-plus, and, our special monday preview of the week ahead. you can find it, at foxnewssunday.com and be sure and let us know what you think. stay tuned, for more from our panel. ♪ [ male announcermercial ist about getting fios; it's about getting fios. that moment after you finally got it, that you actually get it. when you can see blades of artificial grass

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♪ >> i want somebody to ask secretary clinton, why dent you go on tv when the ambassador rice said secretary clinton was not available because she was sick and i want to see if it stand scrutiny. >> chris: the report that found systemic failures of the state department contributed to the murder of four americans at the u.s. consulate in benghazi and we're back now with the panel. well, the state department investigation found, appointed by the state department, found that state provided grossly equate security at the consulate in benghazi and, laid the blame at the assistant secretary level, not at the level of secretary of state claim. but, given that report, and given the fact that susan rice pulled her name out and will not be the next secretary of state, laura, is the benghazi controversy effectively over?

>> i don't think so. i think there are so many questions that we're still left open and a number of senators addressed those this week after the report. we have gross negligence, but, the culpability doesn't reach the secretary's ofice and some information got to her and not enough of it and, then, hillary clinton suffers from the immaculate concussion, two weeks ago. where, you know, she's -- falls and, i hope she is okay but doesn't show up to testify. and, maybe will testify in january. it all just seems too convene and, again, who knows, like a tree falls in the forest, no one is there to see it, did it really happen and, it seems bizarre and, hillary clinton could answer a lot of question on camera, could do a full press conference even if she didn't go to the hill to testify. but as long as there are unanswered questions -- >> she has never really answered questions. >> and, the secretary of state has refused to answer questions either at a full-blown press conference, or, get herself to

capitol hill. i think 2016 politics are coming into play, very early on this. and, i think people are not going to forget this. and, the question is, are people around the world safe today? are they? and what about the criminal investigation into the people responsible? why did the fbi take several weeks to get onto the site at benghazi? why were reporters finding journals of the ambassador, but we still don't know what the ambassador actually really thought or said about the security risks? >> chris: juan, you just heard the clip of lindsey graham saying he wants to ask hillary clinton what did you know and when did you know it question and she's reportedly going to testify in january. is the controversy dead or does it still have life. >> it is dead and over and has been for a long time. there are people who want to perpetuate it but look at the report. it saysre is no cover-up, no lies, and it was politicized in the midst of the campaign. with regard to hillary clinton, there is no ends indication that

she saw any of these reports, and, the report talks about, did it get to the 7th floor, that is not clear from the report but nobody indicates that she had an operative, decision making role that led to the calamity. nobody is saying that. so, you know, she may say she saw some of it, but it is not determinative. i think the larger issue here is, the fact that this report, you know, you have credible ople behind it, saying, you know, we have looked into all of this and there were assets on the ground. did anybody tell the people at the compound not to go help the people at the consulate? turns out the ambassador had an attitude, and his personal movement, turned out there were requests for security, but there were multiple requests, for tripoli and not benghazi. human beings make mistake but to make it into this political, some people kasay watergate, it was ridiculous from the start and looks worse now. >> chris: i'll let you weigh in but i want to ask you about the

president's new national security team, this week he named john kerry to be the new secretary of state. and, the front-runner for the pentagon reportedly, is former republican senator chuck hagel who you can see went on a foreign trip with then senator obama in 2008 to the middle east. what do you think of kerry as the definite - well, i think it is fair to say he's going to sail through as the nominee for secretary of state. and what do you think of hagel as a potential secretary of defense. >> senator kerry will go through and, he is an appropriate secretary of state. i think, for a light footprint, often -- he'll execute president obama's foreign policy confidently, i'm sure and i think senator hagel will either not be nominated or confirmed, he's more extreme than john kerry and, the obama white house says he's a republican and, republicans will go for him, but on foreign policy issues, especially the last several years, he is way to

the left of president obama in terms of iran sanctions. he's -- iran sanctions, the vote which got 92, 97 votes in the senate and he voted against, and, a letter signed by 99 senators, denouncing russia and he refused to sign it and he's anti-israel and talked about the jewish lobby in 2006. and for a republican -- talking about the jewish lobby having too much influence on capitol hill, will that person be appropriate to be secretary of defense? i think senator hagel will not be nominated by president obama, he likes him, they went on this trip together and he likes the idea of having a republican and of that but republicans -- and also democrats, are quietly turning to the white house, what are you doing to us? you are a liberal democrat, what do you want him for, he voted against democrats on gay rights and abortion and gun control and now they are supposed to walk the plank because the president thinks it will be cute to have, you know, a republican as secretary of defense.

>> chris: kirsten, how much trouble is hagel in and, begin all of the publicity he has gotten, as the person obama wants to pick, if he doesn't go ahead with this, after what happened with susan rice, what kind of message does that send, at the beginning of the president's second term? >> well, i mean, to a lot of people it would send a message he's not willing to fight for people, but, the reason he needs to -- no reason he needs to fight for hagel. susan rice is close to him and has been for a long time. with hagel, i don't think he has a big constituency, as bill outline. certainly not a big constituency, among the democrats. if he can't get republican votes, what is this poine point not popular with the democrats and had a run in with the gay community and he apologized and hrc accepted it. but there is bad blood there and, michelle fornoy, is -- >> the obama -- the first term,

actually, someone who worked for president obama. >> and i think it would be a more popular choice. >> chris: a little over a minute left and i want to go on, and we'll go on at length in the panel plus, what did you think of wayne lapierre's statement. >> you heard the collective gasp when he got up there, stylistically and substantively what wayne said and i think the larger conversation, that he began, i thought it was a terrific interview with rick warren is what families are talking about. this holiday season. they are enjoying their time with their families but thinking of the connecticut families and i'm from connecticut and i grew up not far from newtown and i personally as a mom, am thinking about the mothers and fathers and get teared up when i talk about it. the rush -- if we had the assault weapons ban and only the ban on the high capacity magazines, we wouldn' have the problems. i think it is wrong headed. we could pass those laws tomorrow.

and, if we did, i think we still have a significant problem, your scowls notwithstanding. i love juan but he scowls sometime someone speaks -- and i love you and i love your tie. pass those laws, chris and we'll have people doing all sorts of things with a mixture of chemicals, bomb-making all sorts of things, would still have violence and the assault weapons ban did not demonstrably reduce violence in the united states, we are the least violent country we have been i decades today. >> chris: thank you and we'll continue this conversation on panel plus, as we said, as soon as we finish here. we'll pick up right with this discussion, on our web site, foxnewssunday.com and post the video before noon eastern time and you will see what juan has to say, beyond the scowl and follow us on twitter. @"fox news sunday." coming up, our traditional christmas power player of the week. ♪

>> chris: it is a christmas tradition to share the story how one family has found a way to

express the meaning of the holiday season. it is a moving example of love for our country, and personal generosity. once again, here is our power player of the week. ♪ >> we wouldn't have the opportunities if it wasn't for the people that fought for us. and, who gave their lives for us. >> chris: that explain spoken wisdom has driven him for years. on a mission that touched america's heart. each december, he places wreaths at arlington national cemetery and thousands of volunteers are there to help him. >> i think a lot of people think like i do. and they just want to, you know, they appreciate the veterans, and, they want to show it. >> chris: this story begins back in 1962. when he, then a 12-year-old paper boy from maine, won a trip to washington. what impressed him most was arlington, its beauty and dignity and those rows and rows of graves.

>> every one represents a life and a family and a story. they are not just tombstones, those are all people. >> chris: 30 yards later, in 1992, he was running his own wreath company in harrington, maine but as christmas approached he had a bunch left over. >> these wreaths are real fresh and great, just made. and, i just didn't want to throw them away. >> chris: he thought of arlington and all of those graves. when the cemetery approved, he and a dozen volunteers drove the wreaths down and laid them on the headstones. and, so it continued for years. until a few christmases back, when an air force sergeant took this picture which ended up on the internet. >> it kind of struck a nerve, and, people e-mailed it to each other, and, it really went around the world. >> chris: we were there the next year as he and his workers at the wreath company loaded up 5,265 wreaths.

then they embarked on what he called the world's longe veterans parade. a 750-mile journey that at some points attracted more than 100 vehicles and when they got to arlington, so many people wanted to participate. >> the ceremony you are about to witness is an army wreath-laying ceremony to be conducted for the wreath company. >> chris: for years he paid for all of this out of his own pocket and started wreaths across america, sending hundreds to cemeteries and war memorials, around the country. but, he will need help to reach his new goal. >> i think around 7 million graves, and that is a tall order to decorate 2.7 million graves -- >> you'd like to do it, wouldn't you? >> i really would. sometime, i don't know how, but, hey... >> chris: how long will you keep doing that? >> i'll keep doing it for as long as i work. and, then i know my family is going to continue.

so... it will be here for a long time. >> chris: this is the 21st year, he has taken on his christmas wreath project at ington and other veterans' cemeteries, in all 50 states an overseas and this year they reached a mi milestone and now have placed 1 million wreaths to honor men and women who defended our nation. and that's it for today, marries christmas to all of you. and we'll see you next "fox news sunday." captioning by, closed captioning services, inc. present from under our tree.-

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